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tv   MSNBC Live  MSNBC  August 1, 2011 6:00pm-7:00pm EDT

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powers against him because there was clearly a reality here that won't be forgotten regardless how this vicious, terrible game ends up, the fact still sits for all to see through all these months, weeks, days, hours, the team that controlled the ball on this mess did not have the name barack obama stitched on its jersey. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. more politics ahead with al sharpton. the tea party hostage standoff is coming to an end, and make no mistake, the blame is on the hostage takers. breaking news tonight. the house may vote within the hour to raise the debt ceiling. who got what they wanted and who got rolled? the real answers may surprise you. and the white house responds to attacks from progressives. senior adviser valerie jarrett is here live. plus, mitt romney decided
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today was the day to speak out on this. way to follow, mr. frontrunner. welcome to the show. i'm al sharpton, tonight's lead. the house is about to hold a critical vote on the deal that would finally end the fight over debt limit. the plan is likely to pass, despite opposition for both progressive democrats and tea party republicans. the white house says it will let president obama turn the focus back to jobs. >> it has one overwhelming redeeming feature. it says this debt limit issue cannot come up again until 2013. we had to get this out of the way to get to the issue of growing the economy. >> what's in the deal? president obama and the democrats got the debt limit extended through the 2012 elections as you heard the vice president say. republicans won their key
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demand, budget cuts greater than the debt limit increase. but democrats protected social security, medicaid, and medicare benefits while republicans kept new tax revenues off the table. democrats won the first big defense cuts since the 1990s, while republicans got another vote on the balanced budget amendment. joining me now, democratic strategist, current professor at nyu and dana milbank, political reporter for "the washington post." bob, before going to the tea party side, progressives, some progressives are on the war path. are these complaints justified in your opinion? >> not in my opinion. look, the president i think got the best possible deal of all the deals that were possible, and i haven't seen anybody give me a plausible scenario how we could have done this differently. if he had stood up there,
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insisted it was his way or the highway, that any of this could have happened and come out any better than it has. you're absolutely right, al. this now pushed this thing to 2013, which is a good idea, and by the way, taxes are not off the table, because the bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012. and that can be a big issue in the next election. we now have the possibility of a real progressive platform for obama to fight on in terms of protecting medicare and social security and making the wealthy pay their fair share. >> dana, i said every night last week on the show that i wanted to see revenues, wanted to see social security protected, medicaid, medicare which appear to be the case because they're off the table, but one of the things that bothers me is the tea party is also mad. so some of us are angry about revenue, i'm a little worried about why are the tea party people angry. i don't understand how we end up
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with a coalition with extremists on the right and people on the left that are calling themselves progressives. >> well, i think what you had here, reverend al, the president and the democrats should have been in a strong position here controlling the executive branch and half the legislature polled supported the position. yet if you looked at it objectively, the president did cave to some extent. he gave the republicans more than he got. but did he have a choice? as bob pointed out, there probably wasn't a better alternative. what we found out is whether our number, not a huge number, but enough of tea party republicans in the house were crazy enough to say fine, throw the economy, the debt into default. the president just wasn't willing to do that. he made that decision. once you make that decision if you're negotiating against crazy people, if you don't have people who are just as crazy on your side, you've got a problem in terms of negotiations. >> let me ask you this. you say that the president and
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the democrats and the senate and white house right. what i don't understand, last year this time they had the white house, senate, and house of representatives. why didn't they call some of the votes like the bush tax cuts? why didn't pelosi call the votes then? >> well, it didn't happen. they still had it in control when they -- look, there are three points the progressives feel they have been sold out, one was in december after the election. >> no, no, but what i am saying is why aren't some of the progressives we are hearing from, why didn't they push it when they were the majority? some were on the record saying let's wait until after mid term elections and we lost, am i right, bob, didn't some of them help create this problem because they wanted to have no political risk and now saying the president should have taken the political risk they wouldn't have taken or they didn't take? >> look, russ feingold is one of
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the most admired progressives, lost a seat in wisconsin, didn't want to address bush tax cuts before the election, didn't want them to be a big issue in the election. we have seen in the last few weeks, that's one argument the president is winning with the public. it is an argument he needs to take from here and move on. i think if he had not made the deal on tax cuts in december, in addition to which he got extended unemployment compensation, payroll tax cut for the year, got some real stimulus into the economy, i think the republican demand on the debt limit would have been to extend the bush tax cuts and probably make them permanent, and they're just crazy enough to bring the economy down if they don't get that. >> dana, one thing that's very interesting to me, the cut in defense, at the pentagon and in the second round, we start initially with $350 billion, and then in the trigger another $600 billion. that clearly is not a tea party
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plan. >> no way. that's where the democrats are feeling that they will have some leverage there, because republicans won't want to allow that cut to go through. on the other hand, the automatic trigger cuts are also going to go after obama care, they are going to go after medicare, so democrats don't really want that to happen. >> medicare only on the provider side, bob, but they are not allowed to cut social security, not allowed to -- they protected social security, protected medicaid, and they can only deal on the provider side and can't deal with programs that serve poorer people. >> yeah. the triggers i think which i suspect will never come into play because you're going to see, for example, every defense lobbyist in washington pushing for this committee of 12 to come to some kind of conclusion that can pass congress, but the triggers protect medicare beneficiaries. this is a game the republicans played all last year in terms of health reform where they said
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there were huge medicare cuts. there weren't huge medicare cuts for beneficiaries, there were cost controls and restraints put on providers, and by the way, paul ryan in attempt to voucherize medicare depends on that element of obama care to try to get it done. >> now, dana, a lot of the cuts also are back loaded. a lot of them are not immediate. a lot of them are back loaded. so when you look at discretionary spending cuts, there's only 21 billion in 2012, so when people talk about how it will impact the economy, the immediate impact is not nearly as much as i thought it would be. >> no. i think that's right, reverend. for all the progressives complaining here, to put this in perspective, paul ryan's budget which the house passed was looking for $6 trillion in cuts over a decade, now looking at 2.1 trillion. >> over a decade. >> over a decade.
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they are more back loaded so it doesn't interfere with the economy in the early stages. that's not what the liberal base of the party wanted, but it is a far stretch away from the ryan plan. >> now, we talk about the supercommission, the 12 people, bob. what do you feel that this is -- they won't agree to anything, it will play into the election and bush tax cuts are going to expire anyway? what do you feel about the super 12 group? >> well, after the last couple weeks, i think anything is possible. i think there will be immense pressure on the super 12 group to come up with something that can fulfill the second part of this plan so that the automatic cuts or triggers don't go into effect. and i think they probably will. i think there might be tweaks to medicare, for example, but there will be nothing like the ryan plan which would voucherize the plan and cost seniors $6500 a year more. i think the president feels better now about the outcome
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than he can let on. if he looks like he feels better about the outcome, the tea party people and republicans in the house may not pass the compromise. that's what has to get done here. then go on, fight another day, draw the dividing lines for 2012, and i think we can win. >> dana, do you feel that the only way we will deal with concerns of people about the revenue on the table is the weight now on the bush tax cuts expire or can the super group of 12 deal with that when and if it comes to them? >> i think i have less optimism about this super committee than bob does just because there's going to be an awful lot of tug and pull on them from various directions, and the default is to give into the inertia and do nothing here, but the democrats also have that in their pocket, the expiration of bush tax cuts which should induce republicans to negotiate some sort of an
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overall tax reform package, which let's face it, both sides very much want to have. >> bob, dana, stay with me, please. i want to bring in a republican congressman from kansas, representative, he is a tea party freshman that voted against the boehner budget. congressman, thank you for joining us. what are your thoughts? are you going to vote tonight? what are you going to do? >> i'll be voting. no, i don't think this goes far enough. i am looking for something that solves the problem long term. seems to be more of the washington same old game. we are making only a few cuts and need to do much more. >> you feel that despite the fact there are cuts that that's not enough for you. you wanted to see something similar to the ryan plan? what were you looking for, congressman? >> i'm looking for something that would help avoid a downgrade. 22 billion in cuts the first year does not do that. $1.65 trillion deficit, 22
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billion is just a little bit of change. we need a lot more to avoid the problem. i think a lot of concern is about default that was never going to occur. downgrade of credit rating is a real threat unless we make serious structural reforms. >> congressman, if your vote would cause default, if that would cause us to go to default, risk federal services and federal workers, doesn't that bother you? >> yeah. i would be bothered if we had a default. that's what i said. i would also be bothered if the president withheld social security checks. as of today, as far as i know, there's sufficient funds to pay all our obligations and importantly the president can pri pri prior advertise. >> you then play a game how long
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can we keep it going, keep the confidence of the markets around the world. why would we act like that won't have impact on the average person in your district? >> i agree, a downgrade will impact it. and credit rating, s&p 500 and moody's suggest a downgrade could happen and is likely unless we make real cuts. >> but you're going to vote no. you going to help put it there. people in your district, the average person in your district, congressman, is making 23%, below $25,000. this is your district. can they afford us to be playing political posturing games. >> i agree. that's why i oppose the select committee. they don't work. what works is congressmen, men and women of the senate to do their job, that's what we need to be doing. i tell you what, 23% and indeed all my direct, they have been
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tightening their belts, balancing the budget last two or three years, making tough decisions, they expect washington to do the same. >> i tell you who hasn't tightened the belts, 1.5% of the district makes $200,000 or more, if you let bush tax cuts expire, they would tighten up their belts. hard to tell people making less than $25,000 a year to tighten their belts while the guys on the other side of your district are running around in yachts and corporate jets. >> i am in western kansas, there aren't many yachts. most are small business folks creating jobs. under this plan, it assumes the bush/obama tax cuts aren't extended, they expire. i think that will have a harm, create tax uncertainty, in addition to other uncertainty we have in the economy. it has been going south, you know. the first quarter we had almost no economic growth. manufacturing reports are suggesting we are slowing down. we have to make sure the economy keeps moving. i think everybody agrees on
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that. that's the way you get more revenue that everybody agrees with. >> congressman, would you say you understand the problem of credit rating of the country goes down, you say that you understand the pain even people in your own district would have. but you're voting no, despite the fact your party sat down. your speaker is going through three re-writes and taxes off the table, something a lot of us wanted. the president and democrats leaned over backwards. still not enough for you. >> it is not enough for the credit rating agencies. that's my concern. 22 billion in cuts over ten years, maybe 900 billion. what people don't get, what washington doesn't tell us, over the next decade, they are going to borrow another $9.5 trillion. this is about only 10% of the problem. if we want to get a balanced budget, we have a long ways to go. i am afraid a downgrade will effect all our constituents. >> but don't you think that republicans and democrats for the good of the country had to
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compromise? your party has acted as though compromise is something that is poisonous. don't you understand at some point we have to do what's best for the country, and a lot of us on the other side of this, we are saying we are hurt and pained by. seems li on the other side, i want it all, i don't care, let it go where it goes. >> the end result if this does pass would be the president would receive a debt ceiling increase. that's a real compromise. i voted for cut, cap and balance that would have given an increase, but also require a balanced budget amendment. i think the history has proven washington can't balance its budget, but we can't continue to borrow money and spend it and borrow it again, and spend it again. we are on a wheel that has no end. that's why i feel we will have a
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downgrade of credit rating because frankly, we are borrowing money to pay off debt because we can't pay our obligations. can't do it in our own life. >> congressman, i don't care if you said history taught us something, it did. it taught us if we had a balanced budget amendment, ronald reagan and just about every president would have been violating the constitution. thank you very much for your time. >> thank you. >> and one thing i agree with you about, i'm not sure about the super group of 12 because, you know, i am a minister, and i know a guy that got 12 disciples once and he couldn't keep all of them honest. but hey, the house paid their ransom. so why is everyone picking on them. tea party hostage takers are to blame. one of the president's closest advisers valerie jarrett is here live. and everything everything that went down, now mr. economy, mitt romney, takes a stand on the debt crisis. i guess that's leadership, the romney way. stay with us. ♪ yes! ha ha! [ clicking ]
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joining me now, democrat from pennsylvania, congressman fatah. tell me as we look at the tea party saying they upset many progressives, you're in the progressive caucus, do you agree? >> i grew up in the baptist
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church. you have been to my home church. the bottom line, when solomon said they would cut the baby in half, it became clear about who was the legitimate parent for the child, right? we have an inside caper going on here. the republicans, look at the testimony from reagan's budget, treasury secretary, bush's treasury secretary, they ran up the debt and deficit, then no new taxes. said let's give the wealthy their money back. then they said let's push to you the default edge. we are the wealthiest country in the world and have a responsibility to pay our bills. this is a choice where we default tomorrow at 12 midnight, which would hurt all our citizens in very serious ways,
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or they can pass it. when you get through some of the details, and i don't think the white house will go through it all until tomorrow, you find out that spending cuts don't kick into place until 2013, which is the same year that the bush tax cuts expire -- >> wait a minute, let's go slow. i think we need to understand that. the spending cuts do not kick in until 2013, the same year the bush cuts expire, which means there will be more revenue then. >> in december of 2012, the bush tax cuts expire. you go into 13. the congress will be faced with severe cuts in defense, over a trillion dollars of potential cuts in defense, 400 billion now, and 540 billion if they can't come to some settlement about what might get cut or what new revenues might get raised. >> right. >> i think when we see the wisdom of this great young president in the after glow of this deal, see in the aftermath, it may look a little dusty now,
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but let's get down to some of the details. in this upcoming year, we're going to be able to do more to respond to some of the challenges people face. we have 130 million people going to work. we can't afford in our country to default, have our economy fall. you know, we would be looking in the depression, one out of four didn't have a job. we need millions of new jobs, but we don't want to damage the 130 million people born to work. we want to find jobs. >> jobs is definitely something i hope we get back to. i was glad to hear the white house say that. let me ask this. when you raise the points you raise, which is clearly not how this came out last night when we first started hearing it, is this a question of optics? are we not understanding the whole view here? are we only getting certain parts of the plan? because you seem to feel like there's more wisdom in the plan than some of the other members in your progressive caucus said.
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>> you have to look at the facts. here you go. these first group of cuts don't take place until 2013, which is when the bush tax cuts expire at the end of 2012. so there will be new revenue and there will be cuts. we either go through with cuts or keep the new revenues. that's the reality of this. in this bill, this is a bill that's going to allow the government to spend over $50 trillion in the next ten years, cutting two and a half. that's unless the new committee decides no new revenue, and unless some new president or our existing president were to decide to reinstitute these very unwise, wealthy tax cuts for the top 10%. you have to look at the package, we guarantee pell grants. billions of dollars so young people can go to school. the tea party wanted to walk away from boehner saying how could you guarantee pell grants -- >> pell grants are guaranteed here and social security and medicare is off the table, can't
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be touched. only dealing with the providers in medicaid. interesting view from you as progressive. congressman, i have to go. i know you're voting. >> wait until the smoke clears, look at the detail tomorrow. i'll be glad to share with anybody some of the details. we are going to put it up on my website. >> i am going to wait for the smoke to clear, i just don't want to be on fire when the room is smoked up. >> the greatest generation will become the default generation, we are going to move forward with the president's agenda. >> congressman fattah, thank you for your time this evening. ahead, this round is coming to a close, but the bush tax cut fight is coming. will it be a winning issue? for the white house, senior adviser valerie jarrett will be here live. we are waiting for the house to vote on the debt. stay with us for full coverage.
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let me recap. one congressman republican says tonight he won't vote for it because it's not conservative enough. one congressman progressive says wait, go look at all the details. i'm concerned about revenue, hearing about social security, medicare, medicaid. some people just want to get in their corner, their position. i want the truth! some folks can't handle the truth. i'm going to ask senior adviser valerie jarrett next to tell us the real deal and where we're
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welcome back. how is the white house dealing with the debt vote? joining me now, valerie jarrett, assistant to president obama and white house senior adviser. miss jarrett, a lot of reaction behind the scenes i am sure, a lot of work we don't know about. i want to show you a statement i read early this morning, an editorial written in "the new york times." said the president surrenders proips will supposedly have an incentive to make concessions the next time around because defense spending will be among the areas cut, but the gop has demonstrated willingness to risk financial collapse unless it gets everything its most extreme
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members want. why expect it to be more reasonable next time. how do you respond? did the president surrender, are we going up a path that will lead to nothing? >> first of all, good evening, reverend sharpton, always a pleasure to be on the show. of course not, the president made it clear from the beginning certain things had to happen. first he looked for certainty over the long term. we were able to get the debt ceiling lifted until 2013. he did not want to end up in the middle of this debate again in six months. what we hear from businesses around the country, they want certainty. this was providing a cloud over our economy. that cloud is gone. secondly, the president said if we are going to make deep cuts, he wanted there to be balance and shared sacrifice, and he was prepared to do the grand bargain where we would have had substantial cuts and we would have also had revenue on the table. what we have now is we have cuts in the first, and the
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opportunity to bring revenue back into the equation to look at real tax reform where we get rid of loopholes where you say often the wealthy aren't paying their fair share, subsidies to oil companies. >> so they can come back into this process? >> absolutely, reverend sharpton, very important point. we now have the opportunity with this commission to look at all kinds of opportunities to bring down the deficit, including revenue. the other important point that the president made and will be contained in this bill if it is in fact passed, he did not want to bring down the deficit on the backs of people that couldn't afford it, senior citizens, disabled, poor, working families. we shouldn't be making them pay for bringing down the deficit, and the fact we removed all of the important safety net programs from the fire wall, from what we would have in case
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we default with the interim group, we have taken all those programs off the table. >> so those things to the elderly are off the table? >> they are out of the trigger. that was important to the president for all the reasons i said. is it a perfect deal? no, it is not. what we are able to do is avert what would be a catastrophe. the fact we are close to the edge, it is something that never happened before in american history. we never jeopardized faith and full credit and aaa rating. if the bill is passed and the president signs it, he said many times it is not perfect, but it is good, it will be good for the country and we are optimistic it will pass. >> if the president signs this bill, one of the things that -- and i know you touched on it, i just want to purposely be redundant because i want to understand it, mr. boehner and his republican caucus wanted to
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revisit this end of this year. now not only have you said that the poor and the seniors are off the table, but now this pushes it to 2013. is that correct? so we won't go through this during christmas. >> fortunately we will not be going through this during the holiday season. we heard from retailers and businesses around the country the last thing they want is to continue this cloud. the president was interested in certainty. that's what we need in order to create jobs. we need to give people confidence the united states stands fully behind its obligations and commitments as it has always done. so that was very important to the president, and that's what this bill will allow us to do. >> now, nbc is reporting that sources say vice president biden said the president was willing to use the 14th amendment if he had to. do you know if that is so or not? >> i know that there aren't any easy exit ramps, of course we explored all kinds of possibilities.
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but what the american people expect, reverend sharpton, is that congress will do its job and would pass this bill. that's what we're on track for and that's what we're very optimistic will happen. that's as it should be. that's something, the debt ceiling has been raised time and time again with democratic and republican presidents. it should never have been held up the way it was. now we are on the brink here and hopeful it will pass and won't have to worry about it again until 2013. >> will the priorities now be jobs? the president's spokesperson said he wants to get jobs, most americans by every poll, we are concerned about jobs. if we get through this, protect the people you stated tonight, will jobs be the priority going forward? >> it will be the priority, it has been the priority since the president took office. we pulled ourselves back from the brink of complete collapse when the president first took office. as you know, the unemployment rate is still far too high. yes, we have opportunity to
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focus on job creation. there are bills currently pending, for example free trade agreement pending before congress, those will create jobs. we have opportunity for patent reform. that will create jobs. the president is interested in investing in infrastructure bank which will allow us to take public sector dollars, leverage them with private sector jobs, private sector dollars. they will create construction jobs. you know how hard the construction industry has been. we want those folks back to work. we have many opportunities to look at ways to create jobs through export opportunities. we want to keep the conversation on that. i think that this conversation has gone on too long. the american people are sick and tired of hearing about the debt ceiling. we need to get back and have everybody focused on job creation. it is a shared obligation and certainly the president's commitment. >> we will see what happens with the vote tonight. thank you very much. >> you're welcome, reverend sharpton. >> valerie jarrett, thank you for being with us.
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>> always a pleasure. the tea party tried to take the economy hostage. i say we should blame the hostage takers. that's next. [ male announcer ] in america, we believe anyone can be a hero. kraft singles. we're rich in calcium to help build 'em up strong. ooh, watch out, bad guys. kraft singles. the american cheese. energy is being produced to power our lives. while energy developement comes with some risk, north america's natural gas producers are committed to safely and responsibly
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debt deal. huffington post analyst alex wagner is here and former special assistant to president george w. bush, ron crispy. hostage taker, who should be blamed here? i've never seen, alex, where the hostage takers stick you up, charge you ransom, and everybody goes after you for paying the ransom rather than the hostage taker. >> well, i think we are taking the wrong view here. look, the idea of the underpinning of not negotiating with hostage takers is once you negotiated with hostage takers, you're someone that negotiates with hostage takers. you tell the tea party, it worked this time, try it again. the outrage you see on the left and in president obama's base, what have you done. this was a routine matter. raised it 74 times since 1960. at the beginning of this, said
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we are not tying it to cuts. if you look at how far we came, how much it dominated -- >> the question is do you blame it on -- did president obama stop it from being a clean debt ceiling raise, take the republican party, make you guys turn into what you guys turned into? >> i tell you what we turned into. we turned into the responsible party, the party that recognizes -- >> responsible for taxes. >> we are responsible -- are you going to let me talk here? we are responsible for recognizing that this president when he came into office, the deficit was $10 trillion. now it is 14 trillion. the american people for the last election, put 78 new members of congress in, put over 600 in the state legislature, and kicked out a number of governors that said size and scope of government is too much, we need to reduce size and scope of government and reduce our means. hostage takers? they are the ones in washington,
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d.c. that unfairly spend the people's money. >> logical. slow down. sounds logical until you go into the facts. $10 trillion in the hole when he came in. you had to dig deeper in the hole to come back out. if you throw me in a hole and i dig to get out, you blame me for digging in rather than you throw me in the hole. it was george w. bush that put us in the hole. bragging about $10 trillion you threw us in, now you're going to analyze how we dug out of a hole you put us in. >> happy to do it. the fact of the matter is if you look at the bush tax cut from 2003, look at the revenue that came to the united states, the revenue it was about $1.5 trillion. you look at the revenue coming into the united states in 2007, it has gone up nearly $700 billion. so rather than this nonsense of saying president bush put us in the hole, president bush's policies with the tax cut led to
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more revenue going in the government which of course the people in washington, d.c. spent. so i am sick and tired of all of this. >> how do we get the 10 trillion back. aside from having no logic. >> let's be clear about who we are referring to when you refer to hostage takers. john boehner was ready to do an agreement with president obama and was going to give the republican party entitlement reform on a level unprecedented. >> and the president walked away. >> no, no, no. >> the truth of the matter speaks for itself. >> to pretend the republican party wasn't held hostage by conservatives, largely known as the tea party, like louie gohmert from texas, that they didn't play a role, it mischaracterizes the nature of the debate. >> changed the bill twice. the man couldn't get his own
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bill through his own caucus. >> let's deal with the facts, al. president obama's debt ceiling plan, nonexistent. you asked me to answer a question. >> you answered it. >> no. i am answering your question. >> you're saying the president moved the goal post. >> the president moved his goal post because what he would do is come out irresponsibly, in flame the public, saying what this is my principles are, never articulate them and put them on paper. they haven't passed a budget in 800 days. >> excuse me, let me answer the question. the house republicans passed a budget resolution which is required by the law. did the senate do that? no. >> but the house passes all
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measures of legislation not tethered to reality. you look at the reality, the reaction paul ryan was met with, when he took his plan across the country, and you had moot knee. the house has managed to pass all sorts of stuff, whether legislation that accurately reflects where the american public is at and what they actually want is an entirely different thing. >> let me answer your question. the moot knee is the fact the senate hasn't passed a thing. they are required to pass a budget. vice president passed one in two years. you talk about hostage takers -- >> i am talking about -- >> good talking points in a robotic way. >> that's the reality. >> fact is whether you wanted it in writing or not, your speaker had something in writing, you crumpled it in his face twice. >> al, look, the two of you can be as partisan as you want.
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>> we don't have an opinion? >> it is a lie to say the president of the united states had a piece of paper that had a plan on it when the american people never saw it, he never presented it to the american people. where is the plan, al? >> he laid out 1.2 trillion. >> where? >> laid out 850 billion? >> where? where were the specifics? >> on national television, laid out the areas he proposed -- >> president obama has been -- >> that is so far from reality, al. he did not layout what that was. he didn't do it. >> getting ready to vote. they started to vote in the house of representatives. and the vote will take under 15 minutes. we will see at the end of this vote whether or not this debt deal is, in fact, voted into being tonight in the house of representatives. the vote just started. i would assume because the vote
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has gone forward that both mr. boehner and miss pelosi feel they have the votes. >> i would assume. >> in this battle, you can't assume anything. >> we're going to wait and see when the vote is over what the vote is, because clearly it is dangerous to assume since you're dealing with the republican party. >> oh, please. >> and the tea party. >> i tell you what. >> thank you very much, alex wagner, and thank you for bringing ron along. >> you need a reality check.
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you're looking at a live picture of the house floor where the vote is under way. joining me now onset, victoria dell fres cosoto, assistant professor at northwestern university and bob franken, featured syndicated columnist. i know we were talking politics. i heard a lot of things in the last few minutes on this show we
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were not hearing. valerie jarrett, senior adviser to the president said that revenues can come back up. and i'm very concerned as you talked about this about revenue out of this, and that they cannot touch programs to the poor and cannot touch social security, medicaid, medicare. this does not sound like a tea party plan, though clearly i think the whole idea of putting the country on the brink to get any of this and a vote to get a balanced budget is atrocious to say the least. >> this is what barack obama is going to focus on, this is what we kept. kept unemployment insurance, protecting the elderly and protecting children. he's not going to focus on what he gave in to the tea party. the tea party can claim we were able to take that hostage and get more of that. but at the end of the day, barack obama will frame it like he wants to, he is an excellent framer and campaigner, he will make this a win for him. >> will this mean, bob, the
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election will be around the tax cuts? because now you're running into 2012. if this vote passes, the debt ceiling argument until 2013, now the focus will be the bush tax cuts expire, and they have to run on whether they want it not to expire and he runs on whether it should expire. >> that's probably a mixed bag if that's the case. first of all, revenues could come up, if barack obama either at the election or after were to force elimination of tax cuts for the wealthy, which would mean by the way $700 billion in ten years. but the democrats have to worry about running on a platform being accused of being the ones in favor of a tax increase. this would probably benefit the republicans. >> you don't mean the democrats are telling the president to run on that would be worried about the election, you tell me these self-righteous progressives would worry about having to
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stand up when they tell the president to stand up? >> well, they would tell the president to stand up, but they are already telling the president to stand up. >> wouldn't they do what they are now calling on him to do? >> oh, that's right. these are some of the same democrats didn't stand up last year. >> simple fact of the matter is any time you run and say i'm for a tax increase, you are leaving yourself wide open for those on the other side to at least distort it. >> you don't want taxes. not even democrats. >> they are susceptible to the claim that tax on the wealthy is a tax on them, which is bologna. >> absolutely. but i am saying tax increases returning to the taxes as they were before the tax cut, but what also raising the hypocrisy.
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>> time cures all. right now it is make it or break it. there's 16 months and 12 months from now when we are sick of the campaign, no one will remember the debt crisis deal and did you vote for the debt deal, not vote for the debt deal. >> but social security and medicaid and medicare was part of it, because people that need it will not -- >> there's an lek toral amnesia always present. >> very short term. >> what they will remember is the fact in this presidency, particularly with election of tea party members to congress, it is not just a specific crisis, it is that there's constant crisis. i think people are fed up with that. >> everything is relative. the progressive, do we want to go with obama who failed or the tea partiers. they are stuck between a rock and hard place. >> victoria, bob, thank you both. we will be watching this vote and we will be seeing what devil is in the

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